CC:One Moms Journey From Kids with Autoimmune to Her Own Diagnosis

CC Dennis: Hi Cece, welcome. Thank you so much for being here. I'm super excited to hear about your story.

CC Davis: Thanks. Thanks for having me. ⁓ yeah, I've been thinking, I don't even know where to start. And I don't know if most people have the same kind of story where you don't really even know where this started and, like, ⁓ So I don't know if that's common or if it's, or if it's just part of my story, but I don't even know where this all started. It's so complicated. Yeah.

CC Dennis: ⁓ it's my fault. Well, I don't think it's uncommon. I mean, if I'm being honest, I probably was symptomatic in high school and diagnosed in my 30s. So do you start the story is an ⁓ question. ⁓

CC Davis: ⁓ wow. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, wow. So I feel like I kind of backed into this. So focus, I'm a mom of three ⁓ my focus has been on my children for many, many, many, many, many years. And went many different practitioners, many different treatments. always knew and luckily, I guess for us, ⁓ all of our stuff kind of flew under the radar. Nobody was really very sick. Nobody was really showing any strong symptoms of anything really. But I just knew as a mom that something just wasn't quite right. And it kept nagging at me and nagging at me and you know, with all, yeah, with all of them and a variety of different things were happening. And

CC Dennis: Was this with all of your children? I'm sorry to interrupt, all three.

CC Davis: you know, I, course I would start with the pediatrician and the pediatrician would be like, well, you know, everything looks good. And, know, I think once I managed to get a pediatrician to run labs on one of my kids and nothing really came up, I think there was low iron or something. And so you know, it, just was for many years, I just felt like something wasn't quite right. ⁓ and I couldn't quite put my finger on it. I connected with a bunch of other moms. I was in all the groups. I was reading all the books. was, I actually, for a very long time, I thought it was our parenting. So I started reading parenting books. I was doing parenting classes. We even hired a parenting coach. ⁓

CC Dennis: Is this because there was that like it wasn't all physical and you were seeing different behaviors? ⁓ ⁓

CC Davis: Right, right, right. So for us, I mean, there were some soft signs. And again, I would go to the pediatrician and I, it was always a lot of things that like, you know, I'd see like circles under their eyes, bags under their eyes. There was this weird thing with one of my daughter's hair. That's what the, that's why the pediatrician agreed to run labs because I thought her hair. ⁓ Like it just started breaking off and it was just, there was just a lot of weirdness that I couldn't quite, couldn't quite put my finger on. So, ⁓ and then yes, I mean, there was a lot of sleep issues. There was a lot of behavioral issues, but just at home, everybody did fine at school. were no, you know, teachers would be like, well, I mean, ⁓ kids were described as perfect children at school. And, and so at some point, my husband and I, think we were like, okay, it must be us. know, we, we've got to figure out how to discipline three children. Like, ⁓ know, so we started taking parenting classes and reading books and I was in all these groups of, at first it was like when my children were born at first, it was, I'm trying to think the name of those groups. It was like the highly sensitive baby or like high needs baby. ⁓ so I started,

CC Dennis: Okay.

CC Davis: you know, putting myself in, in groups like that, trying to figure out and nothing ever quite fit. And then once we got into like, don't know, probably ⁓ elementary school, ⁓ when I decided, okay, let's just do a psycho ⁓ evaluation. Let's just do a full psycho educational evaluation and see what's going on. because, you know, there definitely is like some ADHD in the family. And so I thought, Okay, let's just see. Because we had kind of tried everything else. We even had a parenting coach come over to our house and kind of see us in action. ⁓ we tried, nothing helped. Nothing helped. And so then we went that route. And one of the very ⁓ first that the psychologist asked me, she said, have you ever heard of pandas? ⁓ And had, but I kind of dismissed it because I thought,

CC Dennis: Yeah.

CC Davis: I mean, yeah, we've had a lot of strep, but ⁓ just, I don't know. Like I'd been in ⁓ group. I also had been in like a biomedical healing group and was a really deep rabbit hole to go in and it was very scary and it was full of all kinds of stuff that I was just like, it was just too much. ⁓ So ⁓ she the first one that mentioned pandas to me and I thought, ⁓

CC Dennis: Yeah.

CC Davis: I mean, maybe, but like, I just don't know. So we went ahead and went through the evaluation, had all three kids evaluated, and we had all kinds of things come up that I wasn't quite expecting. We got autism diagnoses, ⁓ ADHD, dyscalculia, dysgraphia. I'm probably forgetting things. anxiety, OCD, like all these things came up. And so I was like, okay, great. We've got answers. And, you know, so I went about her, the psychologist's recommendations and nothing got any better. And I was like, okay, wait a minute. And I put myself in groups that, you know, I like joined a ADHD group. joined an autism group and I still just felt like in my gut, I was like, this is...

CC Dennis: Yeah.

CC Davis: something just still doesn't feel right. This is not fitting what is going on with my family. ⁓ And I mean, the thing I always tell, connected with a lot of moms myself over the years. I mean, literally probably hundreds and hundreds. And the thing that I always say when I first ⁓ talking to a mom is trust your gut. ⁓ for so many years, like I just knew, ⁓ I couldn't quite figure it out.

CC Dennis: Yeah.

CC Davis: but I just knew like something something's going on and I don't really know what it is. And so it's such a such a long to make a very very long story short. I somehow things started getting worse so 2020 was kind of a good thing for us. We started you know the kids were home started in March and we stopped having a lot of the issues we were having and it was a nice break.

CC Dennis: How old were you at this point? Sorry to interrupt, but.

CC Davis: ⁓ gosh, in 2020 they would have been, ⁓ gosh, that makes me have to do math. So let's see, right now they're all teenagers. So I think at the time they were like nine, ⁓ 11, roughly. ⁓ And so having that break from having to be in school every day and getting up and getting ready for school and needing a good night's sleep and all that, like that just kind of stopped. Like we didn't have to worry about that so much. ⁓ then when school started back up at the end of 2020,

CC Dennis: closing.

CC Davis: things definitely were not good for one child in particular. had what was, you it didn't seem to be anything significant. She tested negative for ⁓ strep. tested negative for COVID and flu. ⁓ But of after that, it was like this giant snowball just going downhill that was like, okay, my very ⁓ high achiever, well liked child just started having really massive issues. She couldn't get up out of bed. She was refusing school and she was the one that always loved school and always did really well and loved schoolwork. Like we never had homework battles. Like she loved it. And that was like the first thing I saw was that, and it was kind of downhill from there. took 13, I counted one time, it took 13, practitioners to finally get a diagnosis of autoimmune encephalitis, which is basically PANS, PANDAS. It's the more widely accepted medical diagnosis. And once we got that diagnosis, then we were able to kind of go forward with treatment. ⁓

CC Dennis: So can you just explain kind of what it, I mean, I know you've kind of given us her symptoms, but is there like a quick little explanation of what it actually is?

CC Davis: Yeah. So, ⁓ so pans is the big umbrella and pandas. Most people, if they've heard of anything, it's usually pandas. ⁓ I feel like that is just more well known because there is such a strong connection with, okay, usually the child has strep and overnight that child changes. Like, it's like a light switch. Your child goes to bed, they wake up the next morning, they have, know, severe separation anxiety.

CC Dennis: Yeah. Yeah.

CC Davis: they have OCD, start needing to, OCD is super tricky. I've learned so much about OCD over the years. A lot of people think they know it and they think it's, you know, excessive hand washing or needing to, you know, turn the, make sure the light or the stove is off or, you know, number kind of rituals. Well, OCD is that, but it's also really severe intrusive thoughts. And sometimes the obsession And the compulsion are mental and so you cannot see it at all So a lot of the early warning signs I missed because it was ⁓ internal ⁓ but basically your child is sweet happy child and then the you know overnight they kind of change ⁓ now is that is ⁓ the of standard textbook Way that pandas plays out

CC Dennis: Yeah.

CC Davis: Now for us, of course it wasn't the standard textbook way it played out. I honestly think we probably had a case of PANDS when all my children were little and it just wasn't caught. And then developed into a complex case of PANDS. And PANDS, probably should tell you, PANDS stands for Pediatric Acute-Onset Neuropsychiatric Syndrome. PANDS stands for ⁓ pediatric autoimmune neuropsychiatric syndrome associated, or sorry, disorder associated with strep. It's a mouthful. ⁓ And so got the PANS diagnosis and then to really help us with treatment, the neurologist gave her a autoimmune encephalitis diagnosis because that it's, know, PANS, PANDAS,

CC Dennis: Okay.

CC Davis: It's been around for a long time. Unfortunately, it still is not widely accepted and treated and diagnosed by your regular pediatrician. Most people can't just go into the regular pediatrician and say, my child has these issues ⁓ the pediatrician saying, okay, let me refer you to a psychiatrist. This sounds like anxiety or this sounds like you know, ⁓ some other kind of psychiatric disorder that needs a psych med. And that's what we were first told. And we went that route. ⁓ like I said, it took about 13 practitioners. We saw a variety of psychiatrists, ⁓ pediatricians. to some holistic We saw a ND we saw, I mean, just anybody and everybody. And finally, it was a functional medicine neurologist that diagnosed two of my kids. So that's such a long journey. ⁓ And I want to bring awareness to PANS and PANDAS and autoimmune encephalitis and basal ganglia encephalitis. They are all, I mean, I think that since I've been in this world and, and seeing like it, there are so many children, like I have met so many moms over the years and it's, it's not going away. really isn't. think COVID has been such a huge trigger. And in a way it's been, it's really been important because, you know, people do believe in long COVID. People have seen that long COVID is a thing. Well, that's really kind of helped the Pan's Pandas world out because

CC Dennis: Yeah.

CC Davis: Um, it's, it's all very similar in nature. It's just caused by different things. Um, and so I said that I kind of backed up into the autoimmune stuff because what happened was, you know, I thought that I was just really stressed. And so the first thing I thought I was like, I basically diagnosed myself with adrenal fatigue because I was like, okay, it's all the stress. It's, you know, living in fight or flight constantly as a mom, it is. me trying to, I mean, I would be up all night long researching all kinds of things, trying to figure out what is going on, what is going on, how do I help my kids, who do we see? I mean, I was in groups, was, I mean, it was, it became like a 24 seven thing. You know, I wasn't sleeping, I just wasn't functioning very well. And so I thought, okay, I have adrenal fatigue because of ⁓ all this stress. ⁓ just kind of kept going and then the symptoms kept kind of piling on. And it was never, again, for me, it was never this big health issue per se. It was just all these little kind of nagging things and...

CC Dennis: Thanks. Exposure. Yeah.

CC Davis: I would go to the doctor and they wouldn't really know what to do with me. And they would say, well, your labs look great. And I think for a while I was a and a negative. mean, nothing was really popping up until we moved. Two years ago, we renovated our house and we into a moldy rental. within hours of being in that rental, ⁓ I started rashes. ⁓

CC Dennis: ⁓ no.

CC Davis: And at first, and I'd actually back it up like maybe six months or so. I told you like, we had these soft signs ⁓ and of them were like just so awful. like I having ⁓ what I just tell was some kind of rash and it was my back. I couldn't see it, but I tried to look in the mirror and I would get my husband to take pictures of it. ⁓ And it was. I knew it was a rash because I could feel it and I knew like I had like this weird feeling my husband would be like, well, you know, if you look at the right light, like let me get the camera at the right angle. Like it wasn't a bad rash, you know, ⁓ I knew still knew that like, so again, these really soft signs over many, many years until we moved into mold and my body went freaking haywire at that point.

CC Dennis: Yeah. ⁓

CC Davis: And then I had really visible signs. I woke up ⁓ with a butterfly rash. I had hives all over my neck. I thought I was dying. I really thought I was dying. I remember sitting in my doctor's office and just had just the absolute worst feeling. I just, like the fatigue and the achiness ⁓ and rash was kind of itchy and burning and

CC Dennis: Yep.

CC Davis: and it was causing my eyes to be really, my eyes were burning. And first I got, which, and I remember the doctor coming in and she kind of looked at me and she was like, ⁓ I think have pink eye. ⁓ And I like.

CC Dennis: So beyond pink eye.

CC Davis: I know. And I was like, and so she prescribed me, you know, medicine for pink eye. And I went and filled it, but I never used it because I was like, I know I don't have pink eye. Like, I know this is not pink eye. And then she agree. She was like, well, maybe it could be shingles because the thing on my back. ⁓ Yeah, ⁓ ⁓ kind like the way I described it feeling, she thought, well,

CC Dennis: That's what I was gonna ask. Was it the like shingles? Yeah.

CC Davis: that sounds like shingles, doesn't look like shingles, but sounds like shingles. And so she treated me for shingles and I felt amazing once I went on an antiviral med ⁓ I was like, okay, but then next again, butterfly rash broke out in hives and I back to the doctor again. I thought I was dying. mean, every single time I went, I was just like, ugh. And that finally, I think when I went in that time, The rash was really, really bad. she immediately thought lupus and, that shocked me because, know, just a month ago she, they were saying, ⁓ we think it's pink ⁓ you know? And I was like, I, I ⁓ tell like, by the way I felt, it felt so systemic. And to back up maybe like nine months ⁓ prior, another soft sign that

CC Dennis: Yeah.

CC Davis: At the time, I didn't really know what it meant, but, you know, hindsight's 20-20. For us, we started putting all these pieces together kind of over the years and it was like, huh, okay. So about, you know, nine months prior, I had injured my shoulder and I was doing PT and I was going to PT for like three times a week for probably six. six to eight weeks, I would say. And I wasn't improving. And finally the PT was like, Cece, I've literally done everything I know to do. And she said, I think something systemic is going on. She's like, I don't know what. She said, but it just feels systemic to me. And like that word kind of stuck in my brain. I was like systemic. I was like, all right, well, I don't know what that means, but yeah, it doesn't sound good.

CC Dennis: Thank you. Yeah, it doesn't sound good, but... Yeah.

CC Davis: And so at the time, as a family, we all started to see, I don't know what her qualifications were, but it ⁓ a little, it wasn't a traditional Western medical doctor. It was ⁓ a health and she did quantum muscle testing. I mean, we've tried anything and everything. Okay, yeah. ⁓ So. ⁓

CC Dennis: I've done that. Yep.

CC Davis: We started doing that and I was on and she did, she was the first one that did a really deep dive like labs for me. She did some functional medicine labs. She took a deep dive look at my thyroid and she was the first person that said, well, you have an autoimmune thyroid. And I was like, okay, well, like, does that mean? And because she wasn't a doctor, she didn't really diagnose. She's this holistic health practitioner. And so she was just going to treat the symptoms. And, for us,

CC Dennis: Yeah. Yep.

CC Davis: For both me and my kids, the thing that I've realized is it, it, know if it's any one thing for us. It's been this total load or this bucket that just got so many insults in it that finally it started dripping over. And I mean, the thing that caused the bucket to drip over, I don't know if that's the thing that was the biggest in the bucket, you know, but.

CC Dennis: Okay. Yeah.

CC Davis: there was a straw that finally broke the camel's back kind of for all of us and, you know, in a, a, on a spectrum, I guess you could say. So, that was like the first time I had ever heard autoimmune, you know, for myself. ⁓ And there is a connection. I am not, I'm not good with numbers. I'm not a researcher. I don't read the research. So, but I can tell you from talking to other moms,

CC Dennis: Yeah. Yeah.

CC Davis: And I'm not just talking about a few, I'm talking about hundreds of moms. There is some kind of connection. Now, whether it's causation, I don't know. But a lot of moms with kids who have pandas or pans, a lot of them have celiac. A lot of them have Hashimoto's. There are some that have crones, you know? So there is some connection. I don't know what came first. Like, again, I know you're... getting all different kinds of people's stories. And hopefully you will talk to a person who, you know, is very much in the know with what the research and the medical literature says. But I can just tell you just like, like rap, just anecdotally talking to other moms, like there's a connection. And for us, for us, I think the big things were mold. I think that that absolutely was a trigger for us at the end of the day, when we tease this all apart, like,

CC Dennis: Anecdotally. sure.

CC Davis: will we all have autoimmune conditions? I don't actually know. My doctor who I'm seeing now thinks that if I do her treatment and we attack it aggressively, that it actually will kind of reverse itself and that it won't necessarily be an autoimmune thing because mine is immune driven. And so it's all of this

CC Dennis: Yeah.

CC Davis: she what she has told me and this is my understanding of it. I'm not a medical person. ⁓ My understanding of it is the reason why I'm ANA positive, the reason why I have, you know, a high RA factor, the reason why I'm trying to think what other labs have like come up. I think those are the main ones where ANA positive and RA factor just like, you know, really high ⁓ multiple ⁓ And

CC Dennis: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

CC Davis: Her explanation of it is that my immune system is like so dysregulated and so out of whack that it just doesn't know what's going on. And so ⁓ treating now like these underlying infections that I didn't even know I had. ⁓ came up, so it turns out I did have shingles, ⁓ very, I mean, very, very

CC Dennis: Yeah. Yeah.

CC Davis: obvious case of shingles. Like I wasn't breaking out in the traditional rashes. I wasn't having the traditional symptoms because I have this immune driven dysfunction. ⁓ It wasn't showing up like the common rash. And that's why, you know, like I knew I felt it, it just wasn't presenting like it. And so, I mean, she ⁓

CC Dennis: Europe. Correct. Because your immune system is so hyperactive, it probably hid a lot of the symptoms because I mean, this is I find this now that I'm on different medications that are helping my immune system calm down or however you want to look at it. I didn't have a cold for 15 years. Like I never got sick. Never. Because my immune system was like attacking. could everybody could be throwing up in my house and I would be like, let's go to the store. You know, like my immune system was so.

CC Davis: Yeah. Yes. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

CC Dennis: overactive all the time. That was like the one thing that I noticed. Of all the other miserable things that came, I was like, well, I guess this isn't terrible. Yeah. Yes, yes!

CC Davis: Yeah. Same. Yeah, and same for me and but I thought it was like a good thing, you know, I thought I was like I am this super healthy strong mom and in a way I was like I will say in my 40s I took such great care of myself. I was working out all the time. I was eating well. I really really really took very good care of myself, but the stress was extreme. We were in

CC Dennis: Yeah.

CC Davis: crisis after crisis after crisis we didn't know what was going on. And so for many years we were for answers and I mean it was very stressful ⁓ and wasn't getting sick and I just didn't really, you know, I didn't really, I didn't really, I thought it was a good thing. ⁓ And what I find really interesting, and I don't know if this has happened for you, but so ⁓ I had COVID. numerous times, but it's so not traditional COVID. For me, COVID for me is panic attacks, ⁓ like ⁓ massive anxiety, waking up in the middle of the night with ⁓ a panic attack. Like that, that is what COVID does for me. Insomnia. It never really made me, it never really gave me a fever or I mean, I think one time I had some aches and pains and like some

CC Dennis: Yeah. Okay. ⁓ Ugh.

CC Davis: chills but like it it

CC Dennis: Yeah. So how did you come to the conclusion like, okay, I'm waking up with these things, like what led you to a COVID test for those like I would never have a panic attack and be like, let me take a COVID test. Yeah. Yeah.

CC Davis: Right, right. And that wasn't my first thought. What happened, and this is, so, ⁓ interesting how life happens sometimes, but my called me one day ⁓ and thought my dad had had a stroke. And she like, I'm calling 911, ⁓ us at hospital. And ⁓ I was, know, ⁓ devastated, rushed the hospital and my stepmother tells me what had been going on with my dad. And I mean, You know, again, I'm not a medical professional, but I was like, ⁓ my God, it sounded like a stroke. You know, he, he lost the ability to speak. He, lost control of his bodily functions. ⁓ couldn't really, he couldn't remember how to walk. like it, it really seemed like something attacked him neurologically, you know, he had COVID. They did, they did the, the standard neurological stuff, the test for, ⁓ for stroke and he passed that and they said, well, let's just swab him for flu and COVID. And my stepmother was like, well, haven't, know, And came back positive for COVID ⁓ and was so crazy because just a days before I had been having one of those,

CC Dennis: Yeah. Wow.

CC Davis: You know, I had never heard of a flare until I got into this world. I didn't know what a flare was like five years ago. And I was having what I thought was a flare that Saturday and I had taken my dad to lunch and it was just the two of us in the car and he lives, he lives kind of far out from where we are. And so we were in the car together, just the two of us. my dad doesn't get out much. So I knew when he tested positive that, that in the hospital, I was like, I had COVID and I gave it to him because after I dropped him off, I went to urgent care because I just had this feeling like I wasn't, I had this pain like right below my, above my stomach and right below my rib cage. And it was kind of radiating over to the side. ⁓ ⁓ went to urgent care and they did not test me for flu or COVID. ⁓ sent me for an ultrasound ⁓ my gallbladder.

CC Dennis: Okay.

CC Davis: And well, that was normal. They were like, yeah, normal. They did some labs, normal. So I didn't think anything of it. I think I took some pepsi and I was like, well, I'm not really feeling great. And then that I had a panic attack while driving and I something is not right with me and I just couldn't quite put my finger on it. I didn't really know what. ⁓ And then was when my dad was taken to the hospital and tested. positive for COVID. And then I was like, I had COVID, I had COVID. I was the one that gave it to him. And I was just having all these weird, weird symptoms. And so then at that point in time, I decided, okay, I'm going to see a functional medicine doctor, like an MD. And I was still breaking out in these rashes. At that point, I think I had gone to, I had gone to a rheumatologist.

CC Dennis: Yeah.

CC Davis: a GI doctor, I'd gone to two dermatologists, I'd been to my gynecologist, I'd been to my eye doctor. I mean, I talked to these people ⁓ and the the thing she said to me was, know, my RA factor was high and she was like, well, she did a physical exam of all my joints and she was like, you know, you're not presenting like you have rheumatoid arthritis.

CC Dennis: Yeah.

CC Davis: She said, but you know, if anything, if anything gets red or ⁓ you know, come back. And she said, she told me, she said, sometimes it takes 10 years for autoimmune to really show in people. And I remember thinking at the time I was like, well, so what do I do? Just wait for 10 years to see if I develop an autoimmune condition? Like, I don't feel well. I was still breaking out and all these rashes and.

CC Dennis: Wild.

CC Davis: things just weren't right. I, every month I was getting and it, and, finally at one point I was like, all right, I was tracking it, but I was also so in the weeds that I wasn't really making the connection that it, it was a monthly thing. Like every month I would break out in hives, whether or not I was having a period, you know, I was still breaking out in hives and

CC Dennis: Yeah.

CC Davis: You know, I'm in my 50s, so I'm like, well, is it perimenopause? Is it autoimmune? Is it stress? You know, I was like, I don't know. The GI doctor, he was a jerk, and he basically looked at me. And I had also, I had tested positive for mono at some point in time. but my liver enzymes were like sky high. And I mean, again, obviously things were not right within me. I kept, and when I started going to doctors for myself, what I told them was, listen, have children that have, I've got one child with autoimmune encephalitis. I've got one child with an autism diagnosis. I was just like, I would go in and I would say, as a mom, I've got these kids that have all these different things going on. ⁓

CC Dennis: Right, yes.

CC Davis: I want you to look at me and I want you to run every single test possible, you know, that you think that you like, want you to look, dig into my health to see if there's something I've passed on to see if there's a reason, see if there's something, you know, genetic. mean, we did genetic testing. We've, we've done like so much and I really kept begging all of my doctors. Like I am the mom, like, and Something has like just just please dig and I remember this GI doctor looked at me and he got really angry and he said this is mono induced hepatitis period end of story and I was like I'm not gonna get anywhere with you So I just kept digging and again the gynecologist she confirmed like, you know

CC Dennis: Yeah.

CC Davis: that there are times in women's lives when autoimmune things can kind of pop up. ⁓ like ⁓ you have babies, menopause, perimenopause, and I think maybe even she said, what was that?

CC Dennis: Hormonal shifts. Hormonal, big hormonal shifts. Yeah.

CC Davis: Yeah, yeah. And so, and she was, and she also said, you know, it could take five to 10 years. And again, that just wasn't a good explanation for me. You know, I'm like, okay, so I'm just supposed to, I'm supposed to wait and see, do I really develop Hashimoto's or do I just have like this autoimmune thyroid or do I really develop lupus? Like I continued to have like a butterfly rash and, and hives and you know, I mean, so then ⁓

CC Dennis: Probably less funny. Yeah.

CC Davis: I decide, all right, I'm gonna go with this functional medicine MD. And initially she was great. She ran all the labs. She looked at my thyroid. I was continuing to have, you know, the breakouts of rashes and stuff. And I went to her and I said, my goal here is what can you discover about me that might help my kids? Like, what can you do? Because we've been through so many treatments with my children ⁓ one had an IV IG and initially that was was amazing. It was it was ⁓ life-changing life-saving Infusion ⁓ we did six of those ⁓ I mean it was great But then it stopped working and so we were like, okay now what would we do? And so anytime we kind of came to a lull with our kids of okay. What do we do now? ⁓ I would try to bring the focus back to me and like, okay, is there something and you know, kids don't really like to be poked. ⁓ I don't either, but I was always like, is there some kind of labs you can run on me that might show something for our kids? Yeah. So I asked this of this, this one doctor I was seeing and she didn't, she didn't get it. Like she was, she took a functional approach, but she didn't get what my end goal was. And she kept saying to me,

CC Dennis: Just a light on that. Right.

CC Davis: you know, let's not search for these triggers because we could be searching forever. And at the time I was like, okay, I get it. But now, you know, again, hindsight's 2020, I think back and I was like, but that's what I wanted to do. I wanted to search for the triggers, even if it meant like, all right, you know, going on a really restricted diet. Like, you know, I wanted to know like, What are these triggers? Because like, I don't feel well. I have always said in the Pan's Pandas world, if a kid doesn't feel well, they don't behave well. You know, if your kid feels well, they typically will behave, you know? ⁓ And for me, I've always seen ⁓ misbehavior air quotes. as a symptom of something much bigger. And so I really wanted to look for triggers. And so doctor was great, not a good fit. So ⁓ kept searching. ⁓ decided to do a different treatment with my daughter. She went and had some rituxan infusions. And as a part of that, that doctor tested her for Lyme and co-infections. ⁓

CC Dennis: Okay,

CC Davis: When I went in the second time around with the really violent rash after they had said, you know, ⁓ this was the month after they said it was pink eye. One of the things she tested me for was Lyme. She did a whole panel, a whole autoimmune panel, did Lyme disease, and came up negative.

CC Dennis: Lime is such a tricky thing. mean, I'm from the Northeast where lime is an epidemic and it's so hard to test for and it's so hard to treat and it's so hard to get a doctor to acknowledge it. Like unless you do the two tests that a regular doctor will do, like they don't dig. I've had family members really suffer. It's hard.

CC Davis: Yep. Right. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, and I, from being in the Pan's Pandas world, there is a strong overlap with Lyme and co-infections. And so I had always asked, you know, well, I have these three kids, should we test for Lyme and co-infections? And the very first doctor we saw, they were like, no, you know, we don't really think so. I mean,

CC Dennis: Okay.

CC Davis: Have you ever traveled to the Northeast? And they kind of asked some questions and I was like, yes, I was born in Massachusetts. We have traveled to Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Maine, New York, and they really weren't convinced that they needed to test. the who was doing the rituxan for my daughter, that was the first thing she did. She ⁓ right the bat, she, ⁓

CC Dennis: Yeah. Awesome.

CC Davis: tested for Lyman co-infections with a specialty lab, not with LabCorp. So she ran a bunch of labs with LabCorp, but then we also did a specialty lab. that came back positive for Babesia, which is, it's like a parasite-like infection in the blood. It can be caused by ⁓ ticks, ⁓ fleas, all kinds of things.

CC Dennis: Yeah.

CC Davis: ⁓ but it was a co-infection of Lyme disease. So when she came back positive, I was like, ⁓ okay. She, the, her doctor agreed to test me. And so lo and behold, I came back positive for Bartonella. And so at that point I was like, all right, this is too big of a thing to just say, I mean, to take chances about. So I've, I found a functional medicine. LLMD, which stands for Lyme Literate Medical Doctor. They have been trained by ILADS, which is like the International Association for Lyme Disease. know their stuff. They are medical doctors that do believe in Lyme disease, both Lyme disease that is like acute and both chronic. So started going to her and that has been like the total game changer. I went to her and again, the first thing I said to her, was like, yes. I am here because I've tested positive for Bartonella and my daughter tested positive for Babesia. And I want to dig into Lyme and what this means for us. But I also want you to know I have three children. I went through my whole thing again and she she got it. She understood the assignment and she no of course not. No no she's in Atlanta though. So she's amazing. She is.

CC Dennis: Was she local? Okay, no, yeah. Okay, not terrible.

CC Davis: know how old she is, I would guess that she is, I feel like she's at least my age or older. So probably, um, you know, mid fifties, she could be in her sixties. Um, she is a brilliant medical doctor who is so well versed in Lyme, in autoimmune, in, um, immune dysfunction, dysregulation, in, um, mass cell.

CC Dennis: Thank you.

CC Davis: And so that is what now are focusing on is both one child and I are seeing this doctor. It's incredibly expensive. ⁓ So. ⁓

CC Dennis: This is my thing with functional medicine. It's only functional if you can afford it. You know, I've done it all in the 16 years I've had something, you name it, I've done it. But not obtainable for everybody, unfortunately. Yeah.

CC Davis: Yeah. Yeah. It's not. I mean, I do think throughout this whole experience over the past, however many years, there are two things I always think. The first thing is, you know, financially, how do families that don't have the financial means, how do they do it? I mean, we started out, we the financial means and now, I mean, we have spent so much on medical care.

CC Dennis: I don't.

CC Davis: Now we're in a not a great financial situation because had to go out of pocket for so much stuff. ⁓

CC Dennis: I say this all the time is that I could have a house in Nantucket for all of the money that I've spent. And that is of the guilt I feel as a mother. Like we have made some serious sacrifices and you do that for your kids all day long. But ⁓ kids, ⁓ kind of treated them with diet and things like that as if they, anti-inflammatory is kind of how we do things around here to prevent preventative stuff.

CC Davis: Yep. Yep. Right, right.

CC Dennis: But I have so much guilt about all the money we've taken from this family to treat myself, to make me functioning. is a conversation I have all the time. This system is broken. ⁓ how families have put themselves in hawk over any medical diagnosis? It's really hard.

CC Davis: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's been. Yeah.

CC Dennis: And the stress, like, nobody gets to this position in life without being in a ball of stress. Like, that's why we're all here. Something happens, some stress triggered our immune system to do something, pay wire, and then now we're trying to backpedal this whole way, and then you add finances in, and it's like...

CC Davis: Yes. Yep. Yep. Off. Yep. Yeah, yeah, it's it's really hard. And I mean, I am a certified mindset coach. And so like, I know all the tools, I have all the tools. So this is the second thing that I always think of. What do the moms that don't have these tools do? Like, have been okay, for the most part, because essentially, my mindset coaching certification was 13 months ⁓ of having like these deep dive, like, mindset sessions for myself. Like that's how you learn, learn by doing. And so ⁓ I went through EMDR NLP, which is neuro linguistic programming. I went through like all these different things myself to learn then how to help others with their mindset and whatnot and rewiring and like I'm really good at it and I'm just barely surviving. Like how are moms that don't have these tools and these resources doing? Like it's hard. And when it's your children and you, mean, it's the worst feeling in the world. studies show that the caregiver burden for ⁓ ⁓ parents of a child with pans or pandas is worse than a caregiver of Alzheimer's or cancer, terminal cancer. I mean, it is a stress like no other really. so, you know, of course it kind of, like I said, I kind of backed into this autoimmune world because I knew something was going on with my children. I always had these soft signs, but never really very sick. And then mold and perimenopause, boom, like brought it all out. And it just is, it's just crazy how much of it can kind of be, you know, controlled. But so much of it, you know, it just kind of came out with the stress. And so, yeah. So now, I mean,

CC Dennis: You can out 1000%.

CC Davis: I found this great doctor and I trust her immensely. just had more labs done last week and she runs labs that like I've never heard of. Like she is really digging into my immune system. And I mean, everything's popping up. I G G, I G G positive and I G ⁓ positive for a lot of things. And so, it's a hard treatment.

CC Dennis: I'd be interested to get her name. always looking for it. When I tell you I've done every holistic thing that you can imagine, I'm at the point now because I was diagnosed at 30 and I'm 47 next month. I basically, I don't even look at my labs anymore.

CC Davis: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

CC Dennis: Like it's so, I go to the rheumatologist and I'm like, I feel good. I don't even tell them really, unless I'm in like a massive flare. I don't tell them the other things that I do. don't tell them about, know, it's checking the box. So I do have to get my infusion. do now I have like a combination of treatments. don't, I did all holistic stuff for five years, not an ounce of medication. And I probably did that two years too long. a lot of joint damage for doing, from doing that. But that, you know, like my,

CC Davis: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

CC Dennis: mentality was I'm not you know It was in a different spot. So yeah, it's It's hard to keep And that's one of the reasons why I'm doing this podcast because a lot of people will become diagnosed with some kind of rheumatoid or lupus or something like that and they'll talk to a friend and the friend knows me and then they talk to me and then I have to, I'm almost like a non-certified coach for the first year of their diagnosis a lot of times. It's like, the time to breathe. You need to be positive. Yes, it's depressing. Get off the Facebook pages. They're miseries. They're centers for misery. But you know,

CC Davis: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yep.

CC Dennis: You're so right in that this is a holistic problem with our bodies and nobody is paying attention to it holistically. Like, no, you have 10, 15 different doctors that you've mentioned and no one wants to look back me.

CC Davis: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. they were all, yeah. Well, and they were all treating. And again, I would always try to bring in my children and like the GI doctor, the only thing he cared about were my liver enzymes. He did not care about anything else. He was looking at hepatitis like that period. And he wasn't thinking of anything else. dermatologist was just looking at the hives and else or trying to figure out if it was something else.

CC Dennis: Yeah. Yeah.

CC Davis: And I really, know, it has been expensive, but the doctor we have now ⁓ is she's treating me and one of my kids. And I realized when I started with her, I thought, all right, the only way I'm going to get better is if she's treating my daughter. The only way my daughter is going to get better ⁓ if she's treating me. So it's kind of like this package deal because, because where did her immune system come from? It came from me, the mom. And so if I had all these stealth infections while we were living in mold and had three children, there are just a lot of things we got to dig through. And we're just peeling back layer by layer. And I always say I host monthly calls. I volunteer with an organization called Aspire. And it's a nonprofit that brings ⁓ awareness and education about pans and pandas and autoimmune encephalitis. ⁓ But I run monthly support calls for parents in North and South Carolina. And I always say on the call that like we have tried anything and everything. ⁓ mean, I will continue to try anything and everything. mean, at one point in time, I was ordering organic freeze-dried donkey milk from the Azores. You know, mean like, like that's like you get so desperate ⁓ then we've also done infusions and we've also taken steroids and we've taken antibiotics and like, you know, DMARDS and like, like, ⁓ ⁓ will try literally anything and everything if it might make our lives better, you know.

CC Dennis: Yeah.

CC Davis: And I kind of, you also have to have your sense of humor too, because like I always bring up the freeze-dried donkey milk because it sounds so absurd. But you read the testimonies of some people that have tried it and you're like, well, damn, I'm going to order some freeze-dried donkey milk too.

CC Dennis: Yeah, it's the least invasive thing you've probably tried. It's just...

CC Davis: Oh yeah, absolutely. mean, and that's the thing, especially when you're dealing with kids, do, you do go that route. You do, you know, go for muscle testing over blood labs because what kid wants to have a needle stuck in their arm? What kid wants to have an infusion? Like none. And it's not fun. And that's not the way, you know, that's not a normal childhood. And that's not what I want.

CC Dennis: Yeah.

CC Davis: for my children. we tried a lot of interesting things and some kind of brought relief and some didn't.

CC Dennis: So do you like, is a little off topic, but my daughter I noticed has some like things that make me pause for like, this a definite inflammatory response to something and ⁓ I a lot with her and her diet. She's very triggered by her diet.

CC Davis: Yeah.

CC Dennis: Gluten is out of this house anyways, but like almonds really cause skin issues for her and things like that. And she's 12. So I'm trying to... How do you... You know, she gets so miserable with her skin sometimes and I'm like, well, you've had a lot of sugar and you were eating an almond bar the other day. you know, like, you know, I know, but how do you tell a 12 year old that she can't have sugar? And it's just...

CC Davis: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Thank you. Yeah, it's, mean, I have to say, mean, don't look at our family for like dietary advice because with pans and pandas comes restricted eating and with autism too. mean, there's like a lot of sensory stuff with, with foods and eating. So sometimes our eating has been so restricted that, ⁓ I mean, one of my kids was close to getting a feeding tube.

CC Dennis: Yeah, well.

CC Davis: ⁓ had long COVID lost a drastic amount of weight, ⁓ was literally days away from a feeding tube. so like, if my kids eat, like I don't add some days, like, I don't really even care. Like, you know, that child was, you know, having milkshakes and, and corn dogs and, mean, just whatever, you know, I mean, we've kind of been. Yeah.

CC Dennis: Yeah. You're happy. Whatever to get them through. I understand that too because at one point I was so restrictive in my diet it was borderline eating disorder. Like I was crazy psycho about what I put in my body and what I didn't put on it, in it, around it, everything. So it balanced another mental. Yes.

CC Davis: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I tend to go from one extreme to the other because this time last year I was doing the CIGI elimination diet. I don't know if you've ever heard of that, but that's that's for, ⁓ histamine. ⁓ it's a histamine elimination diet. And I mean, I just dove right in and I did it for, from like April to July. And then I got so burnt out on eating grilled chicken and leafy greens that I was like,

CC Dennis: Yeah. Yeah.

CC Davis: just can't do it anymore. ⁓ I just, yeah. Yeah.

CC Dennis: There has to be a balance. There has to be a balance. Like you can't... I did it for like four years and then I was eating literally like grilled chicken and some months I could eat broccoli and some months I couldn't. Like it was so crazy how insane I was about this diet that I was on. I would bring my own food everywhere but there has to be a balance because you burn out. It's not sustainable.

CC Davis: Wow. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Yeah, it isn't sustainable, especially with children and children. It's so tricky. And the one thing that our doctor has said is to focus, not to focus on taking away things and eliminating things from a child's diet, but adding in good things first. And that is what I always try with them, you know, adding in an extra vegetable, adding in some blueberries, you know, adding in something that's, that's at least

CC Dennis: year. Yeah, good advice.

CC Davis: healthy instead of saying all right, no sugar and we're you know, like we're gonna give up gluten and like like that is never gone well in my house and one thing I'll say and this is I mean our experience with puberty, know, I have three teenagers now ⁓ so we have been through three different kinds of puberty with them and for ⁓ one

CC Dennis: Yeah. Yeah. Yes.

CC Davis: Puberty was really helpful. For one, puberty was an absolute disaster and made everything worse. if you think finding help for an adult is hard, try finding help for a teenage girl in hormones. I mean, like nobody knows what to do with that stuff.

CC Dennis: Yeah. ⁓

CC Davis: ⁓ Our doctor now in Atlanta does so she's she is great and she is well versed in all the things but man I had to do a lot of research and for us the hormones like triggers were crazy and now that we've ended up with this mast cell diagnosis, I mean that really does explain a lot and have you do you have muscle you knew that ⁓

CC Dennis: No, my cousin, my family is riddled with autoimmune and my cousin has a cell and it is an extremely bad case. Like she's not in a good space at all. She's young. She's like 35 or something. Um, but yeah, she's just crazy.

CC Davis: Gotcha. Gotcha. ⁓ well. ⁓ I'm sorry. Yeah. Some of those, I'm in some mass cell groups. You mentioned groups. Some groups are helpful and some groups are traumatizing. And I would say mold groups stay out of all the mold groups. Like those are so and. ⁓

CC Dennis: Yeah. Yeah. They'll have you wanting to like just end everything. It's very...

CC Davis: Yes, I mean they're awful. The mast cell groups are terrifying mast cell. ⁓ my gosh Like before I started chromaline sodium I went into a group and I just like I think I asked a couple questions and then I was terrified to try chromaline because I thought I mean these people are talking about how drops of chromaline are causing them like like to bend over in pain and I'm like, ⁓ my gosh, I was terrified to start some of these medications because of the groups. And thing I always remind people about Pans Pandas, and this applies probably for all groups, the people that are in the groups are the ones that are in crisis and desperate for answers. Those are the ones who are posting the most ⁓ and

CC Dennis: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

CC Davis: So they're the ones that are answering the questions the most. They're the ones who are posting the most. They're the ones that are in there all the time because they are so desperate to like dig themselves out of it. So you get these answers that, well, it based on anything, you know, reliable or is it based on like some fear based reaction? ⁓ It's hard to know. You know, it's hard to know. ⁓

CC Dennis: Right. Yeah. No.

CC Davis: So yeah, gosh, mean, it is, it's this, this, it's just all crazy. Healing is crazy. It is not linear. ⁓ it is the craziest thing. I've watched it with my kids. I've done it myself. I mean, I just, like I said, I just had labs last week. I've been on two antibiotics now for like almost nine months and

CC Dennis: I was going to ask, that what they, is it still treating Lyme like that with long-term antibiotics?

CC Davis: Yeah, yeah. So, well, I also have mycoplasma pneumonia that came back high. ⁓ And other things I can't even I can't even remember. Cocksackle, shingles, ⁓ mycoplasma. mean, like, and again, like, I guess if there's a message or a moral to the story is that always trust your gut. ⁓

CC Dennis: must.

CC Davis: always trust your gut and keep pressing for answers because I knew something just wasn't right. And, again, there, what, there weren't these loud like signs and, and labs popping up initially, it was just like a hint here, like the PT saying, I think something systemic is going on and then, ⁓ well your thyroid is starting to look autoimmune and like just these little hints here and there that kind of added up and I had to keep digging and

CC Dennis: Yeah.

CC Davis: So yeah, now I'm on way more medications than I ever, ever like I've gone most of my life, like not taking medications. I had my first child naturally, you know, and like now here I am. I have a pill organizer and every, every Sunday I, you know, get all my vitamins and my medications out. And, yeah, I mean, I'm on,

CC Dennis: This sounds like a full-time job. sorry. I think the connection stopped here. This sounds like a full-time job for you as far as managing their health, health, turning over, not leaving any stone unturned over. do ⁓ you, I know you're a coach, said, ⁓ but you work on top of all of this or have you had to take a back? Yeah.

CC Davis: It's It is. So for a long time, I have not been able to work. mean, ⁓ and this was even before my own health came into the picture. I just kind of very slowly started stepping back. I was a health and fitness coach and then got my mindset coaching certification. And quite honestly, it all hit when I was getting that certification. And it was such a blessing in disguise because

CC Dennis: Yeah.

CC Davis: That is what carried me through the first couple years of getting the autoimmune encephalitis diagnosis and really digging into my kids' health and trying to help them. And we went through mold remediation. I mean, I haven't even really touched on that, but were going through so many different things. And so I really couldn't work. And I'm just now able to start getting back into working. And it's a totally flexible job. you know, I'm, working for some friends and helping them with their business. And, ⁓ I don't really coach anymore. What I, what I'm really, really passionate about is connecting with other moms. And my, my rule always is I tell all my friends this, I tell all acquaintances this, like, you do not have to ask if you can share my number. If you know of a mom who is thinking that their child might have pants or pandas or

CC Dennis: ⁓ good.

CC Davis: You just hear them say, my child had strep and then this happened, or I think we might have mold or just anything that you've heard me talk about share my number. Like I am happy to connect with any mom because it was other moms that helped me at first. It was other moms that actually diagnosed my child before that we went through 13 practitioners and got an official diagnosis. It was other moms saying, your child sounds just like mine and they have a pandas diagnosis or your child sounds just like mine and it was pans. and so I'm just really passionate about connecting with other moms and connecting, you know, other moms with each other. ⁓ because that's how, I mean, again, that's just how I have made it. That's how

CC Dennis: Yes.

CC Davis: every day I have been okay through this journey is because I've had other mom friends going through something similar. And it's, find it interesting. Like when I saw your, your post about looking for, you know, moms with autoimmune, I was like, started thinking of my head of all of the moms that I know that have either been diagnosed since I've met them or have just had autoimmune conditions and diagnoses for

CC Dennis: Unity. Yes. Yeah.

CC Davis: quite some time. I mean, it definitely seems to be something that we as women and we as moms need to stay on top of and in communication about because it is, know, there's such, there's that connection with stress. ⁓ that connection with hormones and as we age ⁓ and our, and, you know, our children, like again, this all started as me just being a mom on a mission, trying to help my children and

CC Dennis: Yes, for sure.

CC Davis: I backed into it now trying to look at my own health that at this point, you know, it wasn't just stress anymore. mean, it's other things now too. ⁓

CC Dennis: This is a, there needs to be more community around it. I think a lot of times moms don't want to talk about, I don't know, like I just feel like sometimes nobody really cares, not to sound like nobody really cares, but like. Nobody really cares. think about that sometimes. ⁓ I don't mention. I think there's a lot of people in my circle who have no idea what I deal with. And that's ⁓ me. ⁓ never talk about it. ⁓ I don't like people thinking to feel bad for me or anything like that. But it's really not. It's not that. ⁓

CC Davis: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right, right, right.

CC Dennis: It's more of just building a community so people feel less alone because I do think a lot of women just really don't know where to turn because this doctor saying this thing, it's very isolating. And especially if you're a mom and you're just dealing with this on your own, like I was diagnosed two years before I got pregnant, but I had a miscarriage shortly after I was diagnosed and then I had my babies and I was doing all of this alone in 2012 when my daughter was born.

CC Davis: Mm-hmm. Yeah, it is very isolating. Yeah, gosh. ⁓ wow. Yeah.

CC Dennis: in the winter in Massachusetts, isolated, like not knowing community wasn't a thing. I didn't know anyone who had rheumatoid arthritis. So I just, I think there's a gap that needs to be closed and I don't know how we all find each other. I guess social media is good for that. And you know,

CC Davis: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, again, I've always been that mom that When I was searching for answers, was online 24 seven and I would just go to Instagram or Facebook and I would just plug in whatever it sometimes it was a symptom. ⁓ it was like IVIG. Sometimes it was, you know, the name of a vitamin or whatever, like whatever it was, I would just plug it in and I would just search and search and search. I mean, I've sent

CC Dennis: Yeah.

CC Davis: private messages to so many women over the years just saying, I ask you a question? ⁓

CC Dennis: Yeah. And 99 % of them are probably happy to answer, you know, just a matter of stepping out and asking.

CC Davis: Yeah, you know, there was. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I've made some of the best friends like soul sister type friends of women who I communicate with on a daily basis. And some of them I still have not ever met face to face, but they're like my best friends and we communicate and I know all about their families and they know all about mine and and we communicate every single day with each other, whether it's via text or.

CC Dennis: Yeah.

CC Davis: Instagram messenger or Marco Polo or however we communicate but like and that again that's what has sustained me and so like my message always is reach out to me about anything that I've talked about like I'm more than happy to talk to anybody but also don't You don't be afraid to reach out to other moms. Don't be afraid to Pay it forward. I always and you know and for me ⁓

CC Dennis: however it happens.

CC Davis: This is the last thing I'll say. mean, I talk all day long, but for me, there's this quote that I always have lived by and it is when I feel helpless, I help others. And on this journey, I have felt helpless more times than I care to remember. I mean, so incredibly helpless. mean, that's why you're up in the middle of the night researching, right?

CC Dennis: Yes. Yes.

CC Davis: If you're feeling great about things, you're not up at 3 a.m. looking at mold or IVIG or whatever it is. And so. On those days where I think this, can't like, what do I do? I like nothing's working. I feel horrible. This is happening or whatever it is. I just reach out and I help somebody else. And there are days where I have no business helping others. Trust me, where I mean, my house is a disaster. You know, I'm taking

CC Dennis: thousand percent. Right. I love that.

CC Davis: you know, a second Epsom bath and you know, I'm just like, you know, I'm a, I'm a hot mess. Who am I to help somebody else? it's just such a lifeline for me. ⁓ it is just, again, I've made so many beautiful friendships because of it. ⁓ helped my children feel not so alone and isolated. I've made them some friends ⁓ you know, other moms and stuff. And it just, it's just been such a lifeline just to, you know,

CC Dennis: I say that often is there's a silver lining to this disease once you get through whatever disease you have or whatever dark cloud is following you around at the moment, there's silver lining and it might take you a little while to get there, but you can get a little perspective and look back. I wouldn't live in Charleston, South Carolina if I didn't have rheumatoid arthritis. We left Boston because of it. So here I am meeting you and everybody else.

CC Davis: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

CC Dennis: And you're right, helping people takes, takes the ⁓ off yourself for a minute and you can put it onto somebody else. that's, ⁓ know. ⁓

CC Davis: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I always hesitate sometimes because I know we probably are a certain type of woman. I mean, we already have very full plates and it's full because we do too much and you know, we're type A personalities or what have you and we just do, do, do and whatever, keep piling things on. And so I hesitate to ever say, well, go help somebody else.

CC Dennis: Yeah.

CC Davis: Honestly, I mean, I'm here to tell you helping somebody else, I mean, it doesn't necessarily mean that you go and cook them a meal or I mean, it's just, it's just, you know, some days I just reach out to my friend, Sarah, and I just say daily pulse check, ⁓ know, I mean, ⁓ that's all we can do is just, you still breathing? Yep. All right, good. You know, I mean, it's ⁓ it's sending a quote.

CC Dennis: Yeah. in the text, it's a smile. It doesn't have to be hours of it. ⁓

CC Davis: You know, it's just a little daily like little pulse check. It's like, all right. It's not saying, all right, yeah, I know your plate's already full, but now I need you to like start volunteering and I need you to cook some meals and I need you to donate. And it's not that. It's just every little tiny little bit you do just to connect with another human. I say another mom because, you know, I just think we as moms, need each other and, know, just to connect with someone.

CC Dennis: I love it.

CC Davis: who's going through something similar like that's just a, that's just a little, a little blip that helps keep you going. It's really, it's really not more to your plate. It helps make the plate lighter, I think.

CC Dennis: I I love it. And because sometimes it's actually kind of a selfish act on my part because I feel so much better that I am, did I that for my friend or did I do that for me?

CC Davis: ⁓ yeah. ⁓ exactly. Exactly. mean, people think me at times, like when I do these calls every month and I'm like, y'all, it is totally selfish. Why I do it. Like I get so much from it and I get so much from speaking on podcasts. Like if I help one other family get to the root of pans and pandas sooner than we did, like I'm, I'm the head that I can sleep at night. You know, if I reach another mom who

CC Dennis: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Amen.

CC Davis: ⁓ you know, doesn't realize that she's got mass cell or, know, whatever, any of it, like it, it just like, it makes it all worth it. So, I mean, I, I do it all for selfish reasons. When I speak out on my Instagram, when I anything like it is, it is all for selfish reasons because it's like, all right, you know, sharing my story makes me feel like there's a reason that we went through that pain like there's going to be something like someone's going to hear it and it's going to help them or someone's going to just something you know it just makes me think there has to be a purpose for this for this craziness. There has to be you know and.

CC Dennis: out. Well, I love what you're doing and I think it's important. And I think you're, you're definitely touching people and changing lives and children and all that. There's no nothing greater and like moms, the moms community can change the world. We just have to like band together and do it. ⁓

CC Davis: ⁓ I love what you're doing. Yep, exactly. I agree.

CC Dennis: I would love that.